Psalm 34:17-18 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. And we bear the guilt with them for that. Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit. If you look at a map in the back of your Bible which has something to do with the conquest of Israel, you will see that Gilgal is right over the Jordan River, just on the eastern side of the land. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." Exodus 21:23-25 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. It is for Saul. Numbers 35:29-33 And these things shall be a statute of judgment to you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. All I do know is that they do hold a solid place in world history and one of their offshoots or branches were the Gibeonites. BATTLE AGAINST ENVY AND JEALOUSY Saul, after having disqualified himself from being king, sought to ingratiate himself with God by killing Canaanites, including an unrecorded massacre of Gibeonites. Saul also had sound state reasons for his action, for the Gibeonites were occupying an enclave in the very He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). II Samuel 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. This could indicate that the sons of Saul were actively implicated in this attempted genocide, although we cannot tell for sure as the details of this awful event are not recorded. Instead, they told a story that either ignored the truth completely or, at least, shaded the truth in such a way that it was full of guile and deceit. 1316). We have an easier time identifying with the flawed, but heroic, Lancelot from the legends of King Arthur, because he is a lot more like ushe commits sin; he has faults. Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who trusts in Him! God revealed that this calamity happened because of "Saul and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites ." Because of what had been going on, all the turmoil in this life and the kingdom, David was not spiritually prepared to face it. Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. Then the men of David swore to him, saying, "You shall go out no more with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel.". We are getting toward the end of King David's life. David asked. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. A good answer provides new insight and perspective. However, there was not. . At the request of the Gibeonites themselves, seven sons of Saul were executed ( II Sam. Skeptic turned believer, Catholic, father of 3, ABC/DTS graduate, guitar music ministry Baptist church. God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned for forty -two years over Israel. Verse 5 does not say that the guilt of a person extends to his great-great grandchildren. He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. lorraine goode. But, are these people telling the truth? Deuteronomy 19:7-10 Therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall separate three cities for yourself.' Another thing that God said to do was not done. We have all these things coming at the end time, which is very short. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a By this time, having fought all his life since he was a teenagerup against Goliath when he was eighteen or soand here he was approaching 70 years old, and he was tired. He tried to come up with a compromise, and that was basically, "Whatever you want, you can have." Community answers are sorted based on votes. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. If what happened against Gibeon occurred during Saul's reign, even if it was in the latter half, it would mean it was at least (if we are in the last decade of King David's reign) that the massacre of Gibeonites occurred 40 or 50 years earlier. What have they done? He could have done several things differently, perhaps giving the Gibeonites their freedom as a way to repay them. In addition, after this was the rebellion of Sheba, in which there were all kinds of disruptions until Sheba was killed. "Now therefore, you are cursed, and none of you shall be freed from being slaveswoodcutters and water carriers for the house of my God." They had a more bloody and violent systemwhich often led to blood feuds that may not ever end until a whole family or generation was gone. 1. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. The latter believed that Saul's desire was to destroy them utterly. Israel and Judah," who may have fretted at the inconvenience of having the Gibeonites among them. They did what is recalled in verses 3 through 6 above. Yes, my lord, he answered. II Samuel 21:10-11 Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. When He visits the iniquity upon successive generations, He is saying is that the results and curses that come automatically often go down a handful of generations. But, you would think that after two years you would get the idea that this was not breaking. Or as the Gibeonites said Saul consumed them and tried to destroy them a people Israel had entered into a covenant with 400 years earlier. Without checking out their story; without surveying the geographical situation; most of all, without consulting the Lord and waiting for His guidance, Joshua went impulsively ahead and signed a binding, lasting agreement with the Gibeonites. Why are they where they were? The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. This incident of the famine took place rather late in David's life. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. I do not think that King David thought through the implications of this matter very well. They were going to come in there and just exterminate. It says that they were Saul's sons. My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. ", "She's been doing that for six months? So David asked the Lord for help, and the Lord answered, Saul and his family are guilty of murder, because he had the Gibeonites killed. Davids choice of victims reflects at least the covenant between him and Jonathan, if not also the one between him Asked August 31 2013 This is interesting. He resolved properlynot without a lot of death, with 70,000 dead in that plague, but at least he had the repentant attitude by the time it was over. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. And these men, they need to be buried. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." The time had passed. They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. For unknown reasons, Joshua and the elders of Israel quickly bit on this proposal. There is a difference. Is that what happened?" He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18? King David, for example, made huge errors in judgment and committed colossal sins. WebTheir apostasy began with the Hivites from Gibeon, and in time, the leaven slowly spread. He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. WebThe biblical writer confirms this charge by stating that Saul tried to annihilate [ nkah, to inflict a dead blow] them (2 Sam. Evidently, he thought that he could win back his kingdom if he zealously did God's will. God is warning here that sin has consequences. Jonathan. The Gibeonites left their mark on Israel's history in another wretched incident involving Therefore, the world is full of sintheir own sin. I Samuel 14:47-48 So Saul established his sovereignty over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, against the people of Ammon, against Edom, against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines. "There's something rotten in Denmark," as the saying goes. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. It comes as a snare, Christ says, on everybody. He could have done whatever he wanted. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. Why did he not seem to notice the first year and say to himself, "Hmm. WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. It's much too heavy any more!" Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. Now that we have established that there was a horrible massacre at some point in the past, remember there was sin, and there was a crime committed. In addition, his own soldiers had to tell him, "David, you just don't have it anymore. Other people do not carry the guilt for that person's sin. Therefore, your kingdom is taken away and given to another. But Joshua had the final decision. Let me ask God about this. He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. He was endangering the whole army by being out there, an old man trying to fight like a young man. Report. Lets read about David avenging the Gibeonites in 2 Samuel 21:1-14: 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. 6. God told Joshua to get rid of all these foreigners in the land. That is basically how it was. With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. There was no negotiation; there was no calling them on anything. David may have begun to think about this now, "What is going on here? Justice seems to have been served. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. I think he was distracted because the turmoil had taken such a toll on Israel, and the famine too, that he was worried about the economy, rebuilding cities and fortifications, and his alliances with Hiram and others. The Gibeonites were not Israelites, but the remnant of the Amorites, which Saul pursued from within Israel. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. King Saul exhibited that hubris, that overweening pride in his own decisions and that unfounded confidence in his own good judgment that he brought certain and lasting disaster upon his own dynasty. * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S God sees behind the scenes. Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. 21:1-11 ). WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. He just let them walk all over him. Instead, David brings back twice as many. 12 Saul said, Listen now, son of Ahitub.. Two years is a long time. They knew! The verb is used in this sense with respect to Joshua's action toward the Gibeonites in Joshua 9:27, where cultic servitude is involved ("for the altar of the Lord"). Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. But the consequences of their sinswhat it means to us; what happened because of their sinstill affects us today. And they sent them to Joshua at Gilgal. There should have been payment for it. 17 Then the children of Israel journeyed and came to their cities on the third day. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. They did not inquire. Good question. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. There were big problems, and one of them was the consequences and effects of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. Only after three days did they discover that their "far-distant" allies were really next-door neighbors! 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. It would take three or four generations for perversion to be kicked out of a society. Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? VERSE 2. And, that was that. They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. Only when the Gibeonites were under siege from a common enemy and were calling in the marker on their mutual aid treaty did the Israelites turn to God for counsel and advice. He has mercy, and holds the curses to just a few generations, but He allows the results of doing righteousness to last forever. Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. This is like offering them reparations for what Saul had done, and they replied that it was not good enough. Sheba's rebellion is in the previous chapter, II Samuel 20. Jeiel, Sauls great-grandfather, was the progenitor of the Gibeonites ( 1 Chron 8:29-33; 9:35-39 ), so Saul slaughtered his own relatives! Then Gibeon was a mile or two more to the north-northwest. And how do I know this? When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." He did not negotiate at all. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. Back in I Samuel 15, Saul was told by God through Samuel to go up against the Amalekites, and to destroy everything in sight, do not spare anything; exterminate them. Saul and the Pharisees persecuted and killed the Christians, The sons of King Saul were killed as a result of this attempted genocide, The non-Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70 Gods judgment on them for murdering his son and doubtless, the early Christians. And Agag, he's a nice guy! Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. A lot can happen in two years. By deluding himself that he could solve any problem; by presuming that the end justifies the means; by deliberately countermanding clear and specific orders from the Most High God; Saul not only failed to remove an evil people from the land, he also guaranteed the ultimate destruction of his own family. If you read 2Samuel 21 carefully, it seems possible that Saul and his house may have been trying to get the Gibeonites territory. And that is why God heeded the prayer of the land. There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. You are getting later and later in David's life here. All it is, was, "We want blood, and anyone from the house of Saul will do.". They agree to the death of seven of Saul's descendants. He did not do a thing that a king or judge should do. The Gibeonites remained enemies and aliens to the household of God forever after. Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. The Israelites had taken an oath concerning them, but in his zeal for Israel and Judah, Saul had sought to kill them.) It does not seem to me that during this time of the three years of famine David was emulating the attitude that he wrote about in Psalm 34. Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). God required atonement to be made. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? Then we have verses 34 through 36. I do not know. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." Rizpah, Lord Alfred Tennyson in 1878. David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. That the famine continued indicates God displeasure with David's decision and inner motives. But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. Moreover, Samuel said, "What have you done? It is after Absalom's rebellion. Why wasn't I told about this?" This was obviously later in his life and reign. What is meaning of 2 Cor. Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. So they answered Joshua and said, "Because your servants were clearly told that the LORD your God commanded His servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you.". I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." There is no biblical account of this escapade of Saul and his house against Gibeon. Think of it as if it were today. Webzeal of king Saul - who was a Benjaminite - against the Gibeonites. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. You're out of here!". It is tainted.". He does not live long past the end of II Samuel. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. In 2 Samuel 21, we read of the tragic repercussion that followed when King Saul didnt honor the covenant and murdered some Gibeonites. Such a shame to destroy it all! He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. 2. Saul killed a lot of people. There were no conditions. So, it is very likely that these men were murdered both as retribution and as sacrifices to some pagan god to spite the God of the Bible, and therefore, Israel. Today, I want to visit one of King David's lesser-known black marks, and draw some lessons from it at the end. WebNow, when they heard that the Gibeonites had made a special treaty with the Israelites they got very angry. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. Joshua 9:14-16 Then the men of Israel took some of their provisions; but they did not ask counsel of the LORD. He was tired, and wanted to get it out of the way. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. What Saul did was commit another presumptuous sin. Joshua did try to make lemonade out of his lemons. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?" So, he kept his own covenant, but he did not go any further to figure out from God's law to know what should be done in this situation. 0 responses If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. WebThese lists are not concerned with the Gibeonites at Gibeon, but with the Benjaminite group which came to settle at Gibeon in the course of time. If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. Psalm 34:4-10 I sought the LORD, and He heard me, and delivered me from all my fears. Here we find the Gibeonites demand, and King David counter demandsNOT. Can we assume that God was in any way propitiated at the conclusion of this story? There is no indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers about how to deal with this situation. The rains did not come after the Days of Unleavened Bread when these seven men were executed. They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. He simply folded, giving the Gibeonites everything they wanted. Had him over to the palace a few times." They are going to cause problems. Saul committed a great crime against Gibeon and the Gibeonites. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating delusion. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. 5. After 7-10 years of war, David has solidified his empire Mar 2, 2022. Where are they from? That generation had begun to pass. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. There were no cell phones. This famine has been going on for three years, year after year. Vote Up Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. A far-off land as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land tears it righteous out. 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